On Sun, 6 Jul 2025 00:23:22 +1000, Alex Goodwin wrote:

>On 4/7/25 09:53, Jeff Zeitlin - editor at freelancetraveller.com (via
>tml list) wrote:

>> It has been a long-standing tradition in ship design that each stateroom
>> have its own 'fresher. However, this would seem to be somewhat inefficient.

>> It is acknowledged that were one to designate a stateroom as suitable for
>> paying passengers it would be appropriate for the 'fresher to be private to
>> that stateroom. However, in ships that are not intended for passenger
>> carriage, or for certain specialty ships, common 'freshers might be a
>> better option.

>Would the _value_ of commonality have any bearing here - how far is a
>given fresher shared?

>One fresher between two staterooms, one between three bunkrooms, etc?

>Of course, this can vary throughout a given ship - eg between officer
>and enlisted country.

Yes, it can definitely vary, with one 'extreme' being something like I
experienced in my first year of college; I lived in a dorm with three
floors of bedrooms; each floor had sixteen double-occupancy rooms (bed,
closet, desk for each student), and the common facility at the corner of
the L-shaped floor had five stalls, ten sinks, and five showers.

The other 'extreme' being, naturally, the current compact en-suite
one-per-stateroom model.

What level you choose is up to you, based on expected use. If it's likely
that a majority of the people who need to use it will be trying to use it
at once - such as if everybody in a bunkroom is on the same schedule - then
you'll want to come closer to having one-for-one on sinks and showers. If
you have only one-third of a 'bedroom corridor' on the same schedule, you
won't need that high a ratio.

In certain NYPD precincts, the Commanding Officer's office has a 'ready
room' off it, where if the CO or XO is the 'duty captain' (and therefore
doing a double or triple shift on-duty), he can rest/nap if needed and
there are no active crises that require his management. That 'ready room'
has a complete en-suite.

I mentioned the old Star Trek (TOS) deck plans for the Enterprise; those
had two staterooms sharing a 'fresher; as I recall, it was two sinks, two
showers, and two stalls. I think that was pretty much universal for the
crew residential area. There were no-shower 'freshers in work areas around
the ship, as well.

>> For the portion of the crew that is "on-duty" at any time, small 'freshers,
>> perhaps omitting the shower, in reasonably accessible "crew-public" areas,
>> would serve for when crew members with nearby duty stations need to take
>> care of business. For off-duty crew, if they're in "public" areas of the
>> ship, they have access to the same facilities as on-duty crew; for those in
>> their own rooms, a common 'fresher nearby would serve, just as a single
>> 'fresher in a residence can potentially serve four people without excessive
>> contention, provided that they're not all on identical schedules.

>That sort of model makes sense.  I suspect adding a shower or a dunny to
>an existing fresher would take up less volume overall than adding the
>same as a standalone fresher, but I'm not sure if that saving would be
>above level of abstraction of ship plans.

If one wanted to model Traveller deck plans using The Sims 2, a square in
The Sims 2 was about one-quarter of a 1.5m square from Traveller. A
'fresher with sink, stall, and shower/tub would require five (shower) or
six (either) Sims squares; without the shower/tub, only four. (You needed
one Sims square for the actual sink, stall, or shower (two for tub), and
one for access (two for tub). The access for any two of the three could be
shared, if the objects were arranged appropriately.) The result looked OK
space-wise in The Sims - close, but not cramped - but would definitely
qualify as 'cramped' in Traveller.

A four-ton stateroom in Traveller is eight Traveller squares. A Sims-style
full 'fresher would require one-and-one-half of those eight squares, and
it's typical that you take two of those eight squares for "common" areas,
under current deck plan guidelines. That doesn't actually leave much for
things like lounges, galley, and so on. Common 'freshers for crew
staterooms and common/public areas would seem to be a way to eke out that
little bit extra "play space".

®Traveller is a registered trademark of
Mongoose Publishing, 1977-2025. Use of
the trademark in this notice and in the
referenced materials is not intended to
infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller
    The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller® Resource
xxxxxx@freelancetraveller.com
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