This email was sent from yahoo.com which does not allow forwarding of emails via email lists. Therefore the sender's email address (xxxxxx@yahoo.com) has been replaced with a dummy one. The original message follows:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've always been highly skeptical of "inevitable" evolutions of anything.
My experience is that such a thing is usually highly subjective.
In this case, one could easily posit that the supposedly "inevitable" result did not occur in the TU 'cuz the post-containerization 20th century is not a perfect (or perfect enough) analogy to the TU. Or that the 17/18th centuries are better analogies. Or any number of other speculative onclusions.

Once again it really just comes down to a personal preference. It's really all about exactly what sort of TU is desired. In other words there is a desired outcome & the process is required to support that.

After all, isn't that what the original conception of the TU was all about?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 3/30/16, Craig Berry <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [TML] Relic tech and Scarcity-Driven Imperium (was: Salvage Operations (and Submarines))
 To: xxxxxx@simplelists.com
 Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 12:54 PM

 The
 problem is that you really can't create a consistent
 explanation for a civilization with Traveller tech
 (including cheap energy and easy travel), relatively
 laissez-faire capitalism, and pervasive local scarcity that
 *doesn't* result in the spacegoing equivalent of modern
 container ships. It's just the natural evolutionary
 direction that the market will push freight shipping to
 follow. Never mind that it's equally tough to account
 for pervasive local scarcity given the tech assumptions, as
 exhaustively discussed already.
 My explanation for the CT view of
 shipping is that it was simply what mattered to small-lot
 shippers. The boat that runs supplies out to Two Harbors on
 Catalina Island off Los Angeles is a converted WWII LST with
 a crew of three. They sail to and from Long Beach Harbor, a
 gigantic container port. They pass many freighters along the
 way, most hundreds of times their size. But none of them are
 carrying a week's worth of groceries and fuel to Two
 Harbors, so from their point of view, those giant ships are
 economically irrelevant, part of the
 scenery.
 On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at
 12:43 PM, Phil Pugliese (via tml list) <xxxxxx@simplelists.com>
 wrote:
 This email was sent from yahoo.com which does not allow
 forwarding of emails via email lists. Therefore the
 sender's email address (xxxxxx@yahoo.com)
 has been replaced with a dummy one. The original message
 follows:





 --------------------------------------------

 On Wed, 3/30/16, Bruce
 Johnson <xxxxxx@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU>
 wrote:



  Subject: Re: [TML] Relic tech and Scarcity-Driven Imperium
 (was: Salvage Operations (and Submarines))

  To: "xxxxxx@simplelists.com"
 <xxxxxx@simplelists.com>

  Date: Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 10:40 AM





  > On

  Mar 29, 2016, at 4:50 PM, Tim <xxxxxx@little-possums.net>

  wrote:

  >

  > On Tue,

  Mar 29, 2016 at 06:48:22PM +0000, Phil Pugliese (via
 tml

  list) wrote:

  >> I've seen

  'official' stats for up to 10,000DT's &
 have

  heard of

  >> others up to

  20,000DT's.

  >>

  >> Would that be enough to run the CT

  3I?

  >

  > Yes,

  certainly.  Economies of scale in the construction and

  operation

  > rules in most versions start

  being fairly negligible around the 3k-10k

  > dton range.  You would just need more of

  them to support the trade

  > volumes than

  you would of 100k dton ships, at about the same total

  > cost.



  Yet

  this is not reflected in real-world experience: the
 trend

  has been to ever-larger container ships rather than more
 of

  them.



  Why?



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



 'Cuz the OTU (at least until DGP/MT came along) is based
 upon the 17th/18th century & not on the
 post-containerization 20th?



 Works for me!  ;-)

 Which is only to be expected since I prefer CT. Someone who
 prefers MT is bound to differ, of course.



 p.s. someone posted a very treatise to the list over 20
 (pre-TNE) years ago detailing the fundamental changes in a
 lot of the basics that occurred when MT appeared. My
 impression was that the author  was making the case that
 the CT 3I & the MT 3I were actually two different
 'critters' &, rather than attempting to
 reconcile them, it was easier/better to just pick one or the
 other & go with that.



 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 -----

 The Traveller Mailing List

 Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml

 Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com

 To unsubscribe from this list please goto

 http://archives.simplelists.com


 --

 Craig
 Berry (http://google.com/+CraigBerry)
 "Eternity is in love with the productions
 of time." - William Blake


 -----
 The Traveller Mailing List
 Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
 Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
 To unsubscribe from this list please goto
 http://archives.simplelists.com

-----
The Traveller Mailing List
Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
To unsubscribe from this list please goto
http://www.simplelists.com/confirm.php?u=PltOdItWBSgOP4y0Q6abkGbDI1eus0lz