On Sat, Oct 11, 2014 at 7:57 AM, Tim <tim@little-possums.net> wrote:
On Fri, Oct 10, 2014 at 03:59:53AM -0400, Richard Aiken wrote:
> And they lasted roughly an order of magnitude longer than the
> Spartans, because of jump lag (which slows down all widespread
> cultural change).

I think this is the fundamental point where we differ.  I don't think
jump lag would slow down cultural change at all.  What it does is make
distant cultures less relevant to yours.


I actually agree that jump lag makes cultures less relevant to one another. I also agree that cultural change on individual worlds will proceed apace. However, you are apparently assuming that individual systems within a given racial culture will be *aware* of how much other systems sharing that original culture are diverging from the baseline (or from their own divergent line). I submit that the populations of such worlds will - by and large - *lack* that degree of perception.

The reason is jump lag, again. Jump lag makes timely exchange of information difficult, Therefore, such exchanges are limited in their scope and depth. Those very limits allow each participant in the exchange to "fill in the blanks" with information that naturally fits best with their own worldview. So the participants can thus delude themselves into believing in the existence of an overall unity. If the participants believe that there is overall unity, then there is overall unity. Perception is reality.

Trying to think of another way to express this concept . . .

Consider: Sending data through jump between systems could be seen as a type of slow-motion internet. Those who communicate solely over the internet - through social media for example - seldom actually understand one another as fully as they would if conducting the same exchange of information face to face. Yet such individuals often feel more connected to their online associates than they do to those in their day-to-day real lives.

In this way, the "single culture/state races" of Traveller are examples of massive "on-line communities."



Also no, I very much doubt that the existence of alien species would
unify humaniti into a glorious xenophobic harmony against the
outsiders.


You are certainly free to do so. I just don't think sophonts are - as a rule - that open-minded. Call me a cynic.

 
Especially in the many cases where different species have
been living together for thousands of years, and separated from the
ruling centre by distances and times that mean 99.99% of them will
never see the capital in their lives, and most won't ever even talk to
someone who has lived there.


How did you get all those races living together for thousands of years, in the first place?

They all presumably originally evolved on separate homeworlds, where they all lived in blissful ignorance of each other until first contact. Why should any of them feel more connected to what would logically (given human historical experience) be their nearby enemies? Instead of feeling connected to the distant capital whose influence keeps said enemies from going to war with them . . . again? Most likely, they will all hate both equally . . . unless (as per my above) they have some way of deluding themselves into believing that they and the distant capital from parts of one common "on-line community."

Point: For thousands of years, the Balkans have featured several separate cultures living in close proximity to one another. The only significant period of peace which the region has known was the 70-odd years when a strong external state *imposed* such a peace. 

Point: Most of the cases where different intelligent races have evolved together on the same world or within the same solar system - both in Traveller and in science fiction in general - have resulted in near-constant warfare between those races. Usually, one race ends up exterminating the other(s). Granted, these cases are consciously modeled on human historical experience. But in a fictional universe where most of the "aliens" are "men in rubber suits," you're probably going to have the same average outcome.

-- 
Richard Aiken

"Never insult anyone by accident."  Robert A. Heinlein
"A word to the wise ain't necessary -- it's the stupid ones that need the advice." - Bill Cosby
"We know a little about a lot of things; just enough to make us dangerous." Dean Winchester