Phil,

The fuel purifiers and scoops make roughly zero difference to the economics of the ship - they are within the 1% "slop" thats gone to self-defense and that doesnt really change the economics of the ship at all (plus here for Andrew Vallance's High Guard ship creation program).

Yes, you have reservations about whether this ship is required, because you dont understand just how much volume of stuff worlds produce - lets take, for example, the Tasmanian beef industry.

http://www.kingisland.tas.gov.au/webdata/resources/files/KIAFSG%20final%20report%2017%20Jun.pdf

Lets assume that, somewhere, there are people with a taste for Tasmanain beef, and are willing to pay Imperial Credits to get it. One imperial credit per kilo, in fact. Call it 1000 kilos per m3, and call it KCr10 per dton.

At least per FFS2, it's easily going to be cheaper to import meat at a Cr1 per kilo than it is to upgrade your life support system to produce meat. With CT, it's *handwave* *handwave* "life support costs" *handwave*.

Now,Tasmanian cattle farmers are currently being paid roughly $4000/ton for their beef ... in local currency, which doesnt buy starships, hitech weaponery and all the other things a TL8 culture wants. Trust me, in Imperial Credits, you'd be paying Cr400 a ton, maximum, or KCr 4 a dton (and check the CT-canon exchange rates in Trillion Credit Squadron or Striker for some not-bad numbers).

Tasmania exported 24 kilotons of beef last year, plus 7 kilotons of sheep meat. Thats 31 kton, or call it 3100 dtons. Lets see, a 200dton Far Trader a week, moving 80 dtons or so, moves that with some space left over.

On the other hand, Australia exported 1.4 megatons, or 140 000 dtons.

Remember, this is just beef and sheep meat going from an Ag planet to non-Ag planets. No minerals. No booze, No grain. Nothing else.

From what we know of trade patterns now, just the meat trade, going from an Ag world to various worlds without biospheres, at a target price to the customer of ICr1 per kilo, will be enough to support multi-kiloton cargo ships.




On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Phil Pugliese (via tml list) <nobody@simplelists.com> wrote:
This email was sent from yahoo.com which does not allow forwarding of emails via email lists. Therefore the sender's email address (philpugliese@yahoo.com) has been replaced with a dummy one. The original message follows:

I don't think a 10kTon ship w/ 6kTon cargo is really in the same class as the immense bulk carriers I recall from MT.
I certainly would NOT call it that.
But, I think that it could qualify as a 'massive' commercial vessel.
I also would have reservations about whether or not a commercial vessel this large would really be required.
But, if it was, I don't think there'd be much need for an armed version as I would doubt that it would be needed to service anything other than established hi-pop worlds. I'd also dispense w/ the fuel scoops & purification plant.
IMO, though, there would be more demand for passenger space & so I'd swap reduce cargo space accordingly & also have J2 & J3 versions.
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 8/24/14, Ian Whitchurch <ian.whitchurch@gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [TML] expected ship traffic
 To: tml@simplelists.com
 Date: Sunday, August 24, 2014, 8:32 PM

 One reason
 massive military starships exist in Classis Trav is because
 size is an important defense in High Guard, because of the
 "automatic criticals is size smaller than weapon
 factor" rule.

 Lets take, for example, this
 commercial starship
 Ship: Jacques
 CoeurClass: ConsignerType: Cargo
 HaulerArchitect: Iniigi TalanakaTech
 Level: 11

 USP       
  AK-K521243-070000-80007-0 MCr 4,220.919 10
 KTonsBat Bear                 5      
  1     1   Crew: 66Bat              
           5        1     1   TL: 11

 Cargo: 6,045 Passengers: 12
 Low: 30 Emergency Low: 80 Fuel: 2,200 EP: 200 Agility: 1
 Shipboard Security Detail: 10Craft: 1 x 50T
 NoneFuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel
 Purification
 Backups: 1 x Model/4 Computer
 Architects Fee: MCr 42.209   Cost
 in Quantity: MCr 3,376.735
 It'll shrug off a lot of laser
 fire. On the other hand, it's fac 8 missile bay will
 break a small pirate in half - and thats only allocating
 about 1% of ship volume to defense, the equivalents of 2
 turrets on a 200 dton ship.

 This ship is more-or-less
 self-escorting, and still comes in at 60% cargo by volume at
 jump-2, and has 1 crewman per 100 dtons of cargo ... while
 built at TL11.



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