Hello again Ethan,
 
To be honest I was not thinking about TL when I made the comment about crystaliron, however after I sent my reply and should have said that the contractor was some highly placed official’s family member.
 
In CT the tube specification for a  MRL are determined by the gun bore’s caliber and TAC Missile launchers with tubes use the weight the missile.
 
In TNE FF&S pp. 150-151 there are Direct Fire Rocket Launchers, Artillery Rocket Launchers, Recoilless Rifles, and Space Missile Launchers. The Direct Fire Rocket Launcher specifically mention that rocket pods and single-shot disposable launchers are possible.
 
Using the TNE FF&S Direct Fire Rocket Launchers instructions uses the diameter to calculate the empty weight the launcher. An empty 120 mm 7 tube launcher has a weight of 180 kg and costs Cr 6,300 with out the field-mount.  The field-mount’s weight must be at least equal to or greater that the loaded mass of the launcher with missiles. The loaded launcher weight is 360 kg which means the field-mount must be at least 360 kg. Unfortunately my search so far has not turned up a 3 tube launcher any where around the diameter of 120 mm.
 
On the other hand I did find the empty weight of two 7 tube launchers and on 19 tube launcher close to 80 mm.  Without the field mount the TNE Direct Fire Rocket launchers are about two to three times heavier than the real world systems.
 
The MRL, as you indicate, usually include a fire control system and a carriage in addition to the tube. A TAC Missile Launcher  whether field-mounted (carriage I think), or  on a vehicle require a control unit which has room for an operator.
 
Thank you for your replies which are helping me out with the project.
 
Tom Rux
 
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [TML] Re: MT: COACC Update 5: Rocket Pods and Rockets revisited
 
Crystaliron at what TL?
 
Some MRL tubes are going to be expensive because the price isn't really about the tubes, it's about the whole framework supporting them as in the American multiple launch rocket system. That's set up for reuse ability, fast reloads, accommodating guided rockets that need data feeds to the, and all sorts of things like that. If you are just sticking unguided rockets in a bunch of tubes and you don't need to reload quickly because it's mounted on an aircraft, you go a lot cheaper. The design sequences don't reflect these differences.
 
Can't remember off hand if there's an additional cost for the mountings for the tubes, which can obviously add to the overall cost. For example, each tube on a kedusha is pretty cheap, but you do have to pay for the framework to support them all on the back of a truck. That's a very cheap example.
 
Long story short, there's errata and there are places where the rules are design sequences just need to be fixed. Trying to come up with rules that allow you to build any weapon ever are wildly ambitious, to put it mildly.
 
On Tue, May 28, 2019, 20:15 Thomas RUX <xxxxxx@comcast.net> wrote:

Evening from the Pacific Northwest Ethan,

 

No, I think that the tubes are probably cast in a low grade crystaliron, but I agree that the cost seems way to high. In my search on the internet a number of the reusable MRL launchers and rocket pods mentioned that many are built on an aluminum frame. The material also mentioned making them out of pipes.

 

The cost of an 8 cm barrel is CR 26,000 x 0.1 mortar modifier x 0.5 the MRL modifier = Cr 1,300.

 

The cost per tube for the tac missile launcher is determined by tube weight  times Cr 50 for a launch rail, Cr 10 for the package launcher, Cr 100 for a tube launcher, and the magazine launcher is Cr150.

 

I've also ran the MT: COACC rockets through CT SS3 Missiles in Traveller created while I was helping Donald McKinney with the revision he was working on and I believe is on one of FFE CD-ROMs. Of course my results are based on a draft copy which means my numbers are probably out to lunch.

 

An SS3-R rocket specifications for the rocket is a TL 7 4G6 Continuous Burn, Proximity detonator, HE warhead rocket with a mass of 46 kg costing Cr 6,750 without the TL price modifications.

 

Tom Rux

On May 28, 2019 at 11:57 AM Ethan McKinney <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:

The 80mm MRL tube cost-to-weight ratio is completely nuts. Are they cast silver?
 
On Tue, May 28, 2019, 10:27 Thomas RUX < xxxxxx@comcast.net> wrote:

Hello Ethan,

 

Thank you for the suggestion and I did try using the MRL sequence. A single 80 mm MRL tube, if I followed the direction correctly, has a weight of 1.65 kg, a volume of 0.0413 m^3, and a price of Cr1,300.

 

A 7 tube 80 mm rocket pod's weight is 11.55 kg and the 19 tube version is 31.35 kg.

 

I live near what is now know as Joint Base Lewis-Mchord and I've had the opportunity to look at the rocket pods attached to the Apache. The pods have frame that the tubes mount into with a skin covering the outside. The enter assembly was mounted on a hardpoint.

 

Oops, Ive got to go I have driving duties to perform for my Mom, thank you again for the suggestion.

 

Tom Rux

On May 28, 2019 at 9:51 AM Ethan McKinney < xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:

Tom, I'm not sure that the missile launch tube design sequence translates directly to rocket pods. Maybe I'm misinterpreting. I'd look at multiple rocket launchers (artillery) as a possible closer equivalent. There's just a difference between a rocket pod for aircraft use and a ground mount for launching a guided missile. The tube launchers in classic striker assume that you need some sort of support to hold the tube, while rocket pods are supported by the rail, which has its own weight and cost. There may be some errors and inconsistency use in the design rules. I do think that the pricing maybe off for rocket pods compared to real world prices. The main problem with real-world aircraft rocket pods is that high subsonic and supersonic designs are quite different from ground mount rocket launchers. I'm not sure if there is a design sequence anywhere that addresses this adequately. Also, I can't remember what the supposed equivalent is between Traveller credits and current US dollars.
 
Ethan
 
On Tue, May 28, 2019, 08:38 < xxxxxx@comcast.net> wrote:
Morning from the Pacific Northwest,
 
My pondering worked over night resulted in determining that t
he MT: COACC Rockets Table on page 69 lists the range of the 120 mm rockets as 1,500 m which in CT Striker DS 9 calculates the propellant weight to be 30 kg. Bumping the range up to 2,000 m requires 40 kg of propellant. Adding the 20 kg warhead puts the weight at 60 kg.
 
Unfortunately, that does not correct the weight and cost of the 120 mm 3 tube rocket pod or the 120 mm launch rail cost using DS 9 Step B. Launchers directions.
 
The cost for the three pods are not consistent based on CT Striker DS 9 which has the cost as Cr 100 per tube. The 80 mm 7 tube pod appears to have a cost of about Cr 5.8 per tube, an 80 mm 19 tube pod’s cost is about Cr 4.8 per tube, and the 120 mm 3 tube pod has a cost of about Cr 1.8 per tube. Checking TNE FF&S the tac missile rules are not quite identical and T4 FF&S does not appear to have any launcher for non-space missiles.
 
Does anyone know how to contact any of the people who wrote MT: COACC which might help clear up my confusion?
 
 
Tom Rux

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