That's part of the beauty of the Traveller background material, in my view. It's rich enough to be immersive and interesting, but there's enough ambiguity and missing information that you can create a 3I that's anything from an old-school Star Trek Federation of honorable heroes fighting for truth and justice, to a dark dystopian fascist regime slightly veiled by effective propaganda, to an overextended barely functional stopgap against the forces of dispersion, to...

Of course, real history is much the same way. I'd always thought of the Phoenicians and their Carthaginian heirs as "other", somehow more barbaric and bloodthirsty, and certainly less honorable, than their Greek and Roman neighbors. I recently read an amazing book on the history of Carthage, and discovered that we think of Phoenicia and Carthage that way because they were annihilated, and the victors went on to make them scapegoats for the next two millenia. Every story has multiple sides.

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 11:51 AM Phil Pugliese (via tml list) <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> wrote:
Hmmmm, sounds like 'Gitmo' doesn't it. A lot of folks claim that that's really just a 'political prison' don't they.
So, how you gonna' play the USA  w/ Obama as President?
After all, he wouldn't shut it down.
(Please don't say that "others wouldn't let him". If he *really* wanted to do it, he could've.)
Guess the US is really a dark, evil empire just like Iran says?
Well, for some folks, I suppose it is, isn't it?

On Sunday, April 14, 2019, 7:50:25 PM MST, Nicole Susans <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:




On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 7:37 PM Richard Aiken <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 9:02 PM Nicole Susans <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
Ummmm "some hints?" Adventure 1 an orbital prison full of political prisoners.

Regarding the prison hulk in question, the Traveller wiki states "modern reform and rehabilitation methods are used on a variety of Imperial offenders in a setting removed from normal pressure and routine; the Ministry of Justice reports excellent results in its programs, with a recidivism rate approaching zero."

I read that as one (1) *possibly* political prisoner held at a conveniently-placed secure location. Who can say whether the "senator's" daughter was telling the truth regarding the motivations behind his imprisonment? If she has no money to offer would-be rescuers, wouldn't she plead such a virtuous case, whether or not it was true?

I might draw your attention to the "primary source material" (ie the actual adventure lol). On page 5
" Referee: Imperial Prison Station 17, ex-Battle Cruiser Gaesh, now nicknamed the Gash, is situated in a restricted orbital path above Pixie (0303). Its drive rooms are gutted, and its facilities have been converted to detention cells. A minimal crew of guards is the only security for its load of political prisoners. The ship can neither jump nor maneuver."

Seems pretty clear to me there's more than one political prisoner there, in fact my reading gives it as all the inmates are political prisoners.

Yes you can write this and all the others off as exceptions to the rule (though having officially sanctioned and long established rules for corporate take overs of political institutions may be a little hard, it does indicate to me this far from an exceptional occurrence). But you can just as easily not. However you can not claim there is no evidence to support playing the 3I as suffering endemic deep seated corruption. It's there, it';s just how you decide to read it an play it. You can have your Imperium light if you want but you can just as easily have your Imperium dark.
 
 
Adventure 2 Imperium level sanction for illegal psionic experimentation on sophont beings.

Where does it say that the scientist's bureaucratic superiors are aware of his current endeavor? If they are, then why is the station essentially deserted? Where are all the scientist's security-cleared assistants?
 
Double Adventure 2 (plus multiple other references) blatant corporate and by extension noble intervention to control and overthrow local governments plus clear evidence of widespread corruption.

[shrug] A dozen or even two dozen Adventures - if spread across 10,000+ systems - doesn't really count as "widespread." The fact that the corruption is carefully hidden tells me that it's not generally considered acceptable. The Imperium reminds me more of America in the era of Watergate - there is corruption (there has ALWAYS been corruption) but the general population doesn't credit it as being all that widespread or serious.

I'm quite sure I could go on. GDW always presented the 3I as fundamentally rotten to the core despite the facade it presented.

 
I'm reminded of the published Shadowrun adventures, almost every adventure ends with the patron trying to stiff the player characters of their pay. There was no way this sort of behavior could be as widespread as said outcomes implied, since if that were so then the entire shadow economy would have collapsed long since. Such bad dealings are just a mechanic for increasing dramatic tension, not a portrait of society at large.



--
Richard Aiken

"Never insult anyone by accident."  Robert A. Heinlein
"I studied the Koran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as Muhammed." Alexis de Tocqueville
"We know a little about a lot of things; just enough to make us dangerous." Dean Winchester (fictional monster hunter portrayed by Jensen Ackles)
"It has been my experience that a gun doesn't care who pulls its trigger." Newton Knight (as portrayed by Matthew McConaughey), to a scoffing Confederate tax collector facing the weapons held by Knight's young children and wife.

-----
The Traveller Mailing List
Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
To unsubscribe from this list please go to
http://archives.simplelists.com

-----
The Traveller Mailing List
Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
To unsubscribe from this list please go to
http://archives.simplelists.com

-----
The Traveller Mailing List
Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
To unsubscribe from this list please go to
http://www.simplelists.com/confirm.php?u=PltOdItWBSgOP4y0Q6abkGbDI1eus0lz



--
"What is now proved was once only imagined." - William Blake