I didn't realize the "rules" debate was going back to the list, many CC:ed name were in front of the club name.  If we want to have debates like this that run into esoteric or group specific behavior, it is probably best we take it to ride group emails or facebook.  I try to make my responses of general interest and referential to widespread practices and the law. My response to our fellow club member's comment should have gone to individuals, not the list.